Trust Your Gut: Career Pivots, Resilience, and Life Lessons with Samina Bari

Kerel  00:01

Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of Minority Report podcast with Erik and Kerel. Erik is not with us today, so you just have Kerel flying solo here today. Got a very special guest with us, and we're gonna jump right into the conversation with Samina Bari, who is a CEO and board advisor, Samina, how are you? 

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Samina Bari  00:22

I'm well. Thank you, Kerel, how are you? 

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Kerel  00:24

I'm doing great. Thank you for joining us. I really appreciate it day after the Super Bowl as well, too. 

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Samina Bari  00:30

Yes, thank you for having me. I know everyone's really tired today, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

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Kerel  00:33

But we're powering through it. That's what we do. That's what we do. So Samina, I want to start with our audience loves to get to know obviously our guests in terms of their background, where they were born and raised. So if you wouldn't mind, take a minute introduce yourself and give a little history about where you've born and raised. Yeah,

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Samina Bari  00:53

so I am the first generation American born to Pakistani and Indian Muslim parents. I was born in Staten Island, New York. Raised on Staten Island, went to school at NYU and moved to New York City, and then lived in New York City for many, many years, and now I currently reside in the East Bay in the San Francisco Bay Area.

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Kerel  01:15

Love it. And we grew up, as we were talking before we started. We grew up in very similar areas. You in Staten Island, me in New Jersey, and tell us a little bit about what was it like growing up in Staten Island.

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Samina Bari  01:29

It was interesting. I was born way before we had cell phones, way before there was an internet, way before the world is as connected as it is today. So you know, when I grew up, there was no one who looked like me. I was born in a place that was largely white and Catholic, and you were either Italian Catholic or you were Irish Catholic. And then there was me, and then I went to an all girls private school where, again, I was the only one who was different. So in some ways it was interesting, because I grew up knowing what my parents were trying to teach me, mostly my mother, you know, who in the Muslim background, the women are supposed to be in charge of education and child rearing. So I was caught between her expectations of me growing up as a Muslim girl, and then I went to school with all of these, you know, other white girls who didn't have a care in the world. And it was a really attention filled childhood, because I was being pulled in two different directions. I wanted to be part of the crowd, but I was always being reminded that I wasn't like everyone else? Yeah,

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Kerel  02:42

that's what I was going to ask you, because I feel like in based off of what you're describing, life at home versus life out in the world, at school must have been very different and pulling you in two different directions. How did you handle that as you were growing up?

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Samina Bari  03:01

Yeah, I mean, it's quite the struggle, right? You know, you're juggling two identities. It was, you know, an identity I knew I was more drawn to, which was the more mainstream identity. And then there was the identity that I was being forced to take on when I was at home and because I didn't really have a sense of community, strong community in the home environment, there was some community, but I just didn't feel like they were my people. And I can't explain to you why, because, I mean, how could I delve into the mind of a six year old or a seven year old? I just didn't feel like I belonged there. I really felt more comfortable with the girls who I went to school with, who I spent most of my waking hours with most of the most of the time with so it was quite a struggle, because I seem to never quite get it right. I didn't belong in one or the other. I did know I was deeply disappointing my mother. I was quite the black sheep for her and her community, because I wouldn't conform to what I saw then and still, to some degree, believe, was a really patriarchal society in which I wasn't being encouraged to do my very best because I was a girl, I was encouraged to do what was expected of me because I was a girl.

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Kerel  04:16

And how do you think that experience growing up help shape who you are today and the work that you do today.

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Samina Bari  04:24

Yeah, you know, I think I rebelled from it, you know, against it, from a very early age. I think there's something innate inside of me that just knew I was capable of doing more, and didn't like being put into a box, and because I was being forced to do that and conform when I was at home or with my parents, friends, my mother's community, I really fought her. I was not an easy child. I admit it. I really questioned everything. I'm a pretty analytical and fact based and data based person, so I really wanted proof of you know, why are these things the way they are? What is the rationale behind why women should avert their gaze from men, and frankly, I just didn't like the answers I was getting. It didn't seem to put any onus on men, and it seemed to put all of the blame and burden on women to change their behavior to fit into a patriarchal society. And then on the other side, I was with girls who were free to do whatever they wanted. You know, by and large, we were still children, but they didn't have those same shackles on them. So I was automatically drawn to freedom and independence and big thoughts and dreaming about a future that was only limited by myself. And so, you know, to me, it was kind of an easy choice, and I made that choice very early on, and I didn't really conform, and I couldn't wait to be out on my own and independent and kind of launch into the life that I dreamt of leading, awesome, awesome

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Kerel  05:55

love that tell us what are you up to these days? Tell us about your career and what do you have going on today? I

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Samina Bari  06:02

have been a lifelong career professional in the healthcare and pharmaceutical industry. So you know, 30 years of doing this amazing work that I'm really privileged to say that I've always enjoyed, and few years ago, I decided to take a step back and pause on my career and think about what I wanted to really focus on, and the thing that I want to focus on now, and I am focusing on now, is to be an advisor to CEOs and boards on business strategy and corporate positioning and investor strategy. I really love the strategy part of work, and so that's what I spend my time doing. And it's, you know, it's by referral only. I have a wonderful network of individuals and companies and boards who I work with, and also, one of my lifelong ambitions was to write a book. I had a very dear friend, my closest friend growing up, would always say to me, you know, Samina, you have led such a double life, and your stories are so funny when you look at them with objectivity years later, you should write a book. And my husband also said, you know, it is quite incredible how far you've come despite your upbringing, and he encouraged me to write books. So I'm pleased to say that I finished a book After four long years. Congratulations, thank you. And it's due out in May. It's called I can, I will, and I did, and that's really my answer to my growing up struggles. When my mother told me I couldn't, I wouldn't and I shouldn't do things, and I'm really pleased about that.

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Kerel  07:30

Love it. I'm going to come back to the book in a minute, but I wanted to ask you so you had a career in the pharmaceutical industry. You made a pivot to become a CEO and board advisor. You wrote a book. Congratulations on that. Was there a moment that you had that was sort of like, Aha, I need to make this pivot in my career. I need to go down the path of being an advisor, writing a book. Just curious like, was there one moment that stood out that said, Okay, it's time for me to make this pivot. It's a

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Samina Bari  08:03

long career. You have to remember, there were a few pivots. Yeah, you know. So my, my first big pivot was when I went in house to pharmaceutical companies. So just for some background, I started my career working in a hospital, working on a hospital Communications and Public Affairs function. So I did that for five years. Then I spent the next, you know, under 10 years at some multinational healthcare agencies. So we worked on a variety of clients, and I had the opportunity to work at a company that I'd always wanted to work at way back when, and it was Pfizer, or J, and J, and it happened to be Pfizer that I got a job with. So that decision point in my life was, do I get off the agency track and go in house? And going in house meant I had to take a $50,000 pay cut. Now you can only imagine, you've worked so hard, and you've gotten to a certain point, and you're coming in at a level lower, and you're taking a significant pay cut. I made that decision that I would take that cut because I knew it would be worth more in the long term. So I did that pivot, and that was the best move I could have made for my career, because it led to a very successful in house corporate career after that. And then the second pivot was, you know, where do I want to be to realize my entrepreneurial interests? And after living in Bucks County, Pennsylvania for almost a decade, my husband and I picked up and we were east coasters. My husband was from Long Island, and we moved to California, and I decided to work with a completely different type of company, more, you know, small, mid sized, publicly traded, exciting acquisition target company. So that was another pivot, because we just picked up and moved and had never done that before, as you know as lifelong New York, Yes, yep. And then after I'd done many successful acquisitions, I had a moment of pause, and I realized, well, I've kind of done so much, and now. So you know, as you get to later stages in life, you reflect on what makes you truly happy, what do I really want to do? What do I not want to do anymore? And I realized I just love the strategy part of it so much, and I know that I've always known that I can really see things from a very different perspective, and I could be helpful to CEOs, because I'd always work directly with CEOs and boards. So that's when I decided to make that pivot. I thought, You know what? I think I'm done with the with the daily grind, and I think I want to focus just on strategy. And that's been really rewarding to me, because it gives me the opportunity to work with so many CEOs and boards and different types of companies, different therapeutic areas, but it also gives me back some of my life, the life that, you know, I've spent working to the bone on, and you know, I'd sacrifice so many personal things for my career earlier on. So it really does suit where I need to be right now, at this stage in my life, and

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Kerel  10:57

with all the pivots that you just described and sort of promotions and moving up the corporate ladder, if you will. Is there one thing that stands out, sort of as a lesson learned for you and all that? And if there's isn't one, that's fine, but always curious to know, as people go through their career journey and they make certain pivots, if there's a lesson, a through line, through all of that for you,

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Samina Bari  11:20

yeah, you know, I think for me, and I think for a lot of people, you know, it's trusting your gut. You know, you can be calculated, and certainly you should be calculated. You should have your vision board, you should have your plan. But trust that instinct, because it's there for a reason. And you know, I've trusted it along the time with my pivots, and there were a few times with certain positions, I went against my gut, and I was, you know, unfortunately, rewarded the wrong way for those decisions. But, you know, really, pivots are a big deal, and you really have to be all in, and that means every part of your heart, soul and psyche, yeah, absolutely.

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Kerel  11:55

And I think there's lessons learned in those pivots or those decisions. You make that work out, but and then also the ones that don't as well too. Like there's always a lesson learned in there. Absolutely, yep, yep. Tell us more about the

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Samina Bari  12:08

book. Ah, well, the book is, it's essentially a story of my life growing up. I explained to you know, where I grew up and kind of the early challenges. But it's a memoir that takes you through. It takes the reader through my early years, through my formative teen years, the struggles I went through, the lack of role models, the ambition that was stifled, unfortunately, primarily by my mother, who was my antagonist in life, so we didn't have a warm, you know, Hallmark, like relationship and You know, all of the steps I took growing up, things I sacrificed, but the experiences I had because of how I was growing up, because, you know, to grow up in certain circumstances, you develop a certain persona, ways of coping with things, your own coping mechanisms, your own avoidance techniques. And it's really a reflection of my life and how it excelled because of how I grew up. And it takes you through career, through takes through marriage, my struggles to have children, and the lessons I've learned along the way, lessons on life, lessons on love, lessons on loss, and the loss is that my friend who I mentioned earlier, who encouraged me throughout my life to to write this book. She passed away a few years ago, and she was my friend of 50 years, so that's a significant relationship. And a year and a half ago, my husband passed away, so it's, you know, it takes the the reader through everything that I've been through, and just kind of the steps along the way, and if there's anything I can share with people who grew up in a situation where they weren't appreciated for who they are, or were told they shouldn't or couldn't be someone, or were told not to have dreams and ambitions, this is a story for them.

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Kerel  13:56

Well, my condolences to you for your losses, and this is why we do the podcast, is because we want people to hear other stories, because there could be someone else that's listening right now that might be going through a similar situation that you went through that could, you know, use some encouragement, use some advice. So if you're out there. Listener, please pick up the book. I'm sure there is great life lessons in it. Samina would not have written a book if there weren't. So please do and thank you for sharing that. Samina really appreciate it as we continue to have this conversation, right and again, CEO and board advisor, author, what does a good day look like to you? And why? Well, you

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Samina Bari  14:43

know, life is very different right now. I have two beautiful twin girls, and you know, seeing them wake up happy, honestly, is a good day for me. We've gone through some dark times, obviously. But you know, just seeing them wake up happy, the sun is shining, they are. Full of possibility. They are adjusted. I am able to get to the gym and then get some work done, and, you know, just have time for myself, which is long and hard earned. I think that's a great day for myself. It doesn't have to be anything purposeful. It could be completely purposeless. But it's, you know, I think as life goes on and we experience things we experience, I've learned to not take for granted any day. It doesn't have to be filled with fireworks and roses and sunshine. It's just got to be a good, positive day where everyone is happy and healthy. I

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Kerel  15:36

really love that answer, especially in this day and age of social media, and you see everyone sort of living their their best life, right? Like a good day is different to everyone, right? And that is so important for people to realize. The definition of success should be different to everyone. And it's important to realize that as well too, and don't measure yourself against, you know, something you see on on one of the social platforms, measure yourself against what is going to truly make you happy? And I feel like that's kind of what you're saying, absolutely,

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Samina Bari  16:11

absolutely. Because, you know, in the end, everything is material. Everything is disposable. We only have ourselves, our loved ones, our health, and our happiness. So, you know, make the most of that, celebrate that, you know, cherish the people in your life, cherish the people who love you and the relationships you have, because that's really what's so important. Yep, absolutely,

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Kerel  16:33

absolutely. All right, I want to bring it back to your work as an advisor, so you interface with, you know, multiple CEOs, multiple board members, I have to ask, what is the key to leadership based off of your experience as a leader and also based off of what you see as an advisor? I think

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Samina Bari  16:56

it's empathy. Really honestly, it's that. It's one word that I think has kind of run away in popular work culture, and you have to realize that empathy is a multi component feature or value. It's being able to listen, yes, it's being empathetic, but it's also understanding the other person. And when you understand what motivates someone, which is not necessarily what motivates you, you're halfway there, because your goal is to really understand what motivates someone else and try to figure out how to meet in the middle in a way that they get what they want and the company gets what they want. Or, you know, whoever has asked me to work with them gets what they want. There's a way to accomplish both, and I don't think people realize it, and that's why you often have friction, because one person sees it one way and another person sees it another way, and they're not willing to really listen to one another and meet each other in the middle. And it might not be a 5050, split, but there has to be an ability to reach across the aisle. I know it's that's political speak, but that really is what it is. It's understanding the other person's point of view and trying to reflect that in how you're thinking of moving forward.

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Kerel  18:09

You know, before you said reach across the aisle, I was thinking in my head what you are saying right now applies to so many different scenarios in this country right now?

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Samina Bari  18:20

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We should leave it at that conversation.

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Kerel  18:26

There you are. Absolutely right on that one, how much time are you spending in your job versus in the world these days?

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Samina Bari  18:36

So I'm also, in addition to being a CEO and board advisor, I've also joined the board of directors of two organizations, so I'm doing a lot of work with them. One is a parent support group to end preventable stillbirth in the United States, which unfortunately is still a huge, huge problem. And the other is a women's leadership group, and it's focused on women in corporate leadership positions, women in investing and women in philanthropy. So I'm spending a lot of my time professionally on a lot of these areas. So I would say it's about four hours or so on my various activities, and the rest is in the world, doing my stuff, doing my things, being with my kids, shuttling them to all of their activities and doctor's appointments.

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Kerel  19:21

I'm sure if I would have asked you the same question back when you were full time in the pharmaceutical industry, your answer would have been very different. Absolutely,

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Samina Bari  19:30

in fact, I actually traveled. I was traveling so much for my job at one point several years ago, my girls were maybe two. I saw them three days in one month. I was on the road so much, and I've done long distance jobs where I lived in Austin for a few years, and I commuted to New York City every Monday, and I would spend the week there. And I did that for 17 months. So I've done a lot of travel. But yes, life looks very different, and I think at this point I've earned the right. Like to, you know, be home and have a little more breathing time.

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Kerel  20:03

Absolutely, absolutely, out of all the travel you've done, do you have a favorite city that you

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Samina Bari  20:08

like to visit for work or for personal, either your choice? I will say I'm very comfortable in Cabo San Lucas. It's a very easy trip. I know when I lived on the East Coast, my husband and I had gone there, and now that we're in California, you know, it's a quick three hour flight, so it's closer to us than Hawaii. Very

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Kerel  20:26

nice, very nice advice for anyone who is in a position right now, in an industry right now, thinking about making a pivot, whether that be to another industry, going out on their own or going for that next promotion? Yeah, I

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Samina Bari  20:44

think it's really about believing in yourself. I think so many people, women, especially, suffer from imposter syndrome, and they don't believe that they are good enough or they can and their own insecurities self sabotage. And I would just say, believe in yourself, because the worst that can happen is it doesn't work out. But what's the worst that can happen for that? You pivot back, you go back. But don't not take those chances. Don't let your own fear and your own insecurities hold you back. Believe in yourself. That's the biggest thing, because you can't just as happiness. People can't be responsible for happiness. Not everyone can be your cheerleader. You have to be your own cheerleader in life, and that's especially important in the job. I love

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Kerel  21:26

that piece about being your own cheerleader. I said to someone the other day that no one will be a bigger promoter of you than you. You have to get out there and promote yourself, and to your point, be that cheerleader for yourself. Absolutely agree with that. Tell us about your daily routine. What are the things that you do day to day that keeps you focused and successful?

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Samina Bari  21:48

Something I have been doing for as long as I can remember is I stretch every morning, is whether I go to the gym or whether I don't go to the gym, and I just take a few minutes right after brush my teeth, before I have even opened my bedroom door to stretch, and when I stretch, I do yoga stretches, and I take deep breaths, and I just calm myself. I take those deep breaths because I know throughout the day I will not have the chance to take a deep breath. And that just really energizes me, and it grounds me, and it gives me that focus and that purpose that I need for you know, my post Coffee Day,

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Kerel  22:25

I do the stretching in the morning too. And I don't know what it is, but I feel so much better throughout the day when I stretch the morning, versus so much better. And it's

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Samina Bari  22:38

a nice, gentle way to start the day, yeah? And it's, it's something for yourself too, so you can feel good about it.

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Kerel  22:43

Absolutely, absolutely, what's something you wish you were better at? Samina, you

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Samina Bari  22:48

know, I think growing up the way I grew up, which was very sheltered, and, you know, in a very strict household, I didn't really learn to have fun. And so I grew up in a really serious household where all you did was study or you watch TV, and you know, there wasn't a lot of laughter in my house. So you know, one of the things I was better at is being spontaneous, having more fun, being more comfortable doing those things. You can't really teach spontaneity, but you can learn to have more fun. So I am working on that. I'm doing more with my kids, and they're helping me, but even, you know they're the first ones you say, Oh, mommy, You're so boring. But I'm working on it.

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Kerel  23:24

I was gonna say, as a father of two daughters, my kids certainly pushed me to have more fun. So I'm sure your kids do the same to you absolutely, with all the pivots that you've made throughout your career, becoming an advisor, writing a book you talked about, sort of some of the the challenges you've had during your childhood in terms of identity. What's the biggest risk that you've taken so far in your life?

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Samina Bari  23:56

And this can be a personal risk, yep, whatever, whichever one you think, yeah, well, I would say my biggest risk was marrying my husband, like confronting my parents and telling them I was marrying someone who they did not envision me marrying because it was an interracial relationship. I married a you know, green eyed, dimpled man, very handsome with a chiseled jaw, and my parents had always envisioned me, or, you know, really were directing me to marry another Muslim man, and I had abandoned my belief in that religion so long before that, and they never quite could reconcile that I had done that, and when I, you know, I meant it. I wasn't going to spend my life with someone from a culture that I inherently disagreed with or marry for a culture or a religion, and I introduced my husband after we had been dating for three years, and it took all of my courage. I remember I was sweating because the risk there was my. Parents had always told me they would disown me because women, women who were born Muslim, do not marry white men, but men, Muslim men certainly are allowed to marry white women. So there was that double standard my whole life. So throughout my 20s, I'm sure I sabotaged every relationship I was in. I was not in good relationships. There was nothing that was ever going to come of them. So that weighed on me from a very young age. They told me, you know, we would disown you. So I mustered up my courage in my, you know, my early 30s, I said, This is who I love. This is who I'm going to marry. Love

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Kerel  25:35

is a powerful thing, isn't it, and good for you in terms of sticking to who you are and being who you are, and I think that's a very powerful note to sort of close out this podcast on. But Samina, for anyone that's listening that may want to reach out to you to continue this conversation or find your book to purchase as well too. What's the best way to reach out to you. And where can folks go to purchase your book? Yeah, so

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Samina Bari  26:03

you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. It's LinkedIn backslash, Samina Bari, so please do that. My book will be available in May, and it will be available on Amazon. And I am currently putting up a website, so it should be, we should have a link on the website as well. All

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Kerel  26:19

right, so everyone reach out to Samina on LinkedIn. We will definitely leave your LinkedIn address in the notes section for the podcast. Samina Barry, thank you for joining us for this episode. For those of you listening, check out more episodes wherever you find your audio and video, and we will talk to you soon. Thanks everyone.

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