Dr. Marcus Collins, professor, best-selling author, and keynote speaker

Erik  0:03  

We want to welcome all of our listeners to another episode of MRP, Minority Report podcast with Eric and parrell. Each episode, we talk with real operators and leaders in media, tech and business, and today, we're super excited. We've got Dr Marcus Collins, joining us. Dr Marcus is a professor, Best Selling Author, keynote speaker, culture scholar, Chief Strategy Officer Forbes, contributor, let's jump in and get to know Dr Marcus Welcome. How are you? Dr Marcus

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Dr. Marcus Collins  0:38  

Collins, I am all smiles and glad to be with you guys.

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Erik  0:42  

The feeling is mutual. Oh yeah,

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we have a lot of fun stuff to talk about, but we're really excited you're here, and I think the audience is going to love learning a whole lot more about you. But I want to start with, where did you grow up? Where were you born and raised?

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Dr. Marcus Collins  0:58  

I am a product of Detroit, Michigan. What I've always felt is the best city in the country, very cool. It's a place where the grit meets the sheen of like the auto industry. It's where you get, like, a mix of these different cultural contributions from the south, the west and the east, and, of course, the Midwest. It doesn't feel like Chicago, but it feels like its own thing. And just love a trade, it feels

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Erik  1:29  

like its own thing. 500% I have to tell you, I was just there two weeks ago, and I feel like you were describing it through my own eyes. It's its own thing. There are other great cities around, but it is its own thing. And wow, what a what a comeback. There's a lot still happening, but a great, great place.

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Dr. Marcus Collins  1:49  

It's not the city I grew up in, and some ways it's sad. In other ways, makes me kind of proud, like it's like watching a kid grow up, you know, you're like, Oh man, I like to see you sort of take form, but I sort of miss you when you were, you know, a scraggly kid, and I feel like Detroit is kind of kind of like that for me, at least,

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Erik  2:08  

yeah, or a couple things that kind of make you proud today about Detroit. And like,

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Dr. Marcus Collins  2:12  

even though the city is cleaned up a little bit, it's clearly more diverse as far as race and ethnicity in the city still has a bit of, like, Don't f with us, say it like, no matter what, like it still has like, this sort of formidability to

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Erik  2:29  

it. That's kind of shirts, and then on the on the apparel I like it,

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Dr. Marcus Collins  2:33  

that's right, that's right. I mean, there's a chip on our shoulder. I mean, Detroit versus everybody. I know that that moniker has been used, like, you know, Philly versus everybody. You know, the versus everybody. Thing that was made by Tommy Walker question went to my high school, younger than me, though, but like, that moniker just captures the ethos of the city. It's us versus everybody. Because of that, you know, we welcome you in. Like, don't start talking junk Man. We'll chin check. You know, I'm saying I love that about the city, dude, I took it wild because

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Kerel  3:02  

that should be on you know how you see these signs when you drive into a city like, welcome to Detroit. Don't mess with us. We'll chin check you.

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Erik  3:13  

I love it so. Dr Marcus, you end up over at the University of Michigan. You end up at Temple. Before that, tell us about growing up and before going there. Tell us about, you know, all of the steps it takes in order to sort of get there.

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Dr. Marcus Collins  3:28  

Oh, yeah. So, you know, in Detroit, I was, like, just strong middle class. It's like, if you look up middle class and then dictionary, that was us, like, like, right there, sort of in the middle of things the neighborhood I grew up in it wasn't tough by any stretch, but, like, it certainly wasn't lavished either. But honestly, I couldn't even tell the difference. I didn't know, you know, my brother and I were swimmers, so we swam competitively. We swam for our schools team and high school for sure. We also swam for a state team as well. So we're always either at some practice, at school or in church, like that's what we worked at this. That's the upbringing I had, even the summers. By the time I was coming of age, I was at least in high school, I would spend my summers in Ann Arbor at a summer Engineering Academy at the University of Michigan. So it's no secret why I ended up kind of going here. So I would either go to band camp and then go to engineering camp, then go to church camp, and that was my summer. Had a lot of fun, but my parents were very invested in making sure that our future outcomes were going to be designed, not default, you know. So that was my that was my experience growing up. Never really found myself in any trouble. My mother would always tell me, yo, if you go to jail, don't call me, because I don't go to jails. I go to graduations. Like, she's like, I don't I don't do jail, so like, you go to jail, don't call me because I can't do that before you graduations I show up to. So that was kind of always. Like running in the back of my mind, since I did well in math and science as a high school student, I study engineering, because that's what you do the 90s, right? If you do well in math and science, you black from Detroit, you're gonna be an engineer. So that's what I did. I went to school to study materials engineering. Thought the polymers were cool.

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Erik  5:18  

Yeah, that's great. I want to ask you, you have an interesting, I think, combination of having one foot in the world of practice and then one foot in the world of academia, can you tell us a little bit about that? Can you talk about what that's like? Yeah, well, the

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Dr. Marcus Collins  5:36  

academic part was nowhere in the horizon. As far as I saw, it was not on the bucket list. Never saw myself in something exercise myself as I am today. I was a terrible undergraduate student, like, barely graduated, skin of my teeth, like I barely graduated. I realized pretty early on that while I thought engineering was interesting, I just wasn't terribly interested. And remember, after my freshman year of college, I came home said, you know, Mom and Dad, I don't think I want to be an engineer. My mother, who's an academic, says, wait to get your major. You'll love it. Got my magic my major, and I did not love it. I decided to take some music theory courses to offset my terrible GPA, and I fell in love with major sevens, and I was like, this, this is what I want to do me. I spend my time playing piano and church and playing in bands and singing in choirs, but it never dawned on me that this could actually be a thing that I study and could do for a living. So I came home and said, you know that summer after sophomore year, mom, dad, I think I want to be a songwriter. They're like, Oh, you don't. Does not happen.

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Kerel  6:43  

That's not a part of the plan.

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Erik  6:47  

We have this design Marcus. He's

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Dr. Marcus Collins  6:51  

like, Yeah, remember, like my parents grew up, like my mother grew up in Detroit, and like her classmates were all affiliated with, like, Motown, so, like, she saw people try to go into the music industry. It not happen. She saw people go into the industry and sort of flame out. So in her mind, like, this is not a, sustainable and B, this is not reality, dude. Like you are smoking crack right now, if you think that I'm going to be on board with you doing this, you know. So I finished my engineering degree, went to the music industry right after I graduated, which was right after 911 so 911 happens, the market is just terrible. And in my mind, this is me rationalizing it. Oh, this is my divine sign to pursue music. So I do that. And, you know, I write love songs for a living. I wasn't terribly good or terribly successful, but I did it made a little money, but nothing great. So I went back to school to get my MBA, to understand what's happening in the world of music, this disruption that we end up calling digital. And out of that, I went to work at Apple, doing partner marketing fry tunes. Then I met Matthew Knowles, who ran digital strategy for Beyonce nigos. Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. You're an engineer, started a music company, got an MBA. You worked at Apple, and you're black, bam, you don't exist. You're not real, you know, I am real. He says, Well, you should run digital strategy for Beyonce. And I go, Yeah, I think I should do that, yeah, make that happen, you know? So I found myself, like, I say, elevating my career. But I just found myself in like, better rooms, is how I think about it. And really, meeting Steve Stout is probably going to change my life the most. And while I love working at Apple, and it was huge for me work with Beyonce, obviously it's a gift that keeps giving. But meeting stout, working at translation was probably the biggest inflection point of my career, because I started to really question my understanding of the world of which I knew it and the world of which I was navigating. You know, we found ourselves a translation. This is an agency that calls itself the McKinsey of pop culture. This is about helping brands Thrive contemporary culture. And every day, we get the word culture at least 15 times in a day, you know. And I'm like in culture, we do this big culture coach culture. But if you ask me to define culture, you get a Homer, Simpson blank stare for me, right? And truthfully, if you ask anybody who were talking about culture ad nauseam the way we were, people didn't have good answers. And I go, I don't know what I'm talking about here. Here I am sort of espousing this point of view that I think is brilliant. I just don't know what it really means. And it's that and the evolution of social media as a means by which we help brands go to market, by engaging with consumers in a in a meaningful way, that start to explore the social sciences, and as I explore like anthropology, social psychology, sociology and behavioral economics, the world got really clear. It's like, oh, this is the thing, if we understand the underlying physics of humanity, that is the thing that is consistent in all of us, despite the category, despite the business model, where is B to B or B to C or B to G, this. Is just humanity. The better we understand humanity, the more likely we are to engage him and ultimately get them to move, which the core function of marketing, and that became the cheat code for me. The more I understood people, the better my work got. Like all the case studies that I'm most proud of I sent you, just took theory of Behavioral Sciences and said, hey, you know, so and so said this. Edward Bernays, you know, says you get united people by declaring an enemy of the state, like he's the godfather of propaganda. And go, Well, if we want to get people to embrace the Brooklyn Nets, let's declare an enemy of the state. And luckily for us, that's Manhattan. That's the strategy for the Brooklyn Nets, moving them from New Jersey to Brooklyn based off of theory. And I was like, the more I applied theory, the better the work became, which made me more curious about theory, so I started to explore it. More the work got better. And it's just that duality of the two. That's what I've been doing for the last, what, 12 years now, 13 years now, sort of sitting in one foot in the world of practice, one foot in the world of academia. So to get a doctorate to, you know, explore that even further and teach it to help people be better marketers than I was. I

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Kerel  11:08  

really love that. And I remember we met, I think a couple years ago, we were on the same stage at an event. And, you know the idea of understanding people, right? You talk about it. It's at the center of your book. I love it because I think you can take that and apply to anything in life, right, whether it be marriage, friendship, managing people, leading people, marketing. It comes down to understanding people. And it sounds so simple, but it's very complicated, and people have a hard time with it.

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Dr. Marcus Collins  11:47  

That's right. I mean, I expressly state in the book that this is not a marketing book, it's a people book, because we're talking about is what happens when people come together, we interact, and we decide what's normal for people like us, you know, try to pull examples, and not just like business case studies, but thinking about meaning making, and talk about, you know, my wife, where, you know, she'll say, Hey, can you do dishes? I go, Yes, dear. She go, why you say like that? They go, I just said Yes, dear, that what your face did. It's like my face deceives me. Right? The way I communicate, my face may not be congruent with the words that I say, and therefore she translated it differently than what I intended. These things are happening all the time, whether it's us and our spouses and our kids, our managers or direct reports, or just out in the world in general, especially with marketing. And this is probably something they say it's inflated, but I certainly do believe it wholeheartedly that the better we understand culture, not only will be better practitioners, but I really believe that we'll be a better society if we understand what culture really is, that it's the manner or the means by which we translate the world and ultimately inform how We navigate through it. Yeah.

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Kerel  13:00  

And then for, for those listening, we're talking about the book, but I'll put it up here so everyone can see it. It's for the culture. Came out last year, year before last, last

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Dr. Marcus Collins  13:11  

year may. Paperback version comes out on Tuesday, September 10. So Okay, we're back in full swing. Gotcha,

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Kerel  13:19  

gotcha, gotcha, yeah. And again, I've read the book now a couple of times. We've actually had some guests on the podcast that have mentioned the book as it being one of their their top reads currently, as well. If you can take a second and just give us maybe one or two points really, from the book. We just talked about it a little bit, but just one or two points that really, I guess, encompasses a book or like ideas that, like you really wanted to get down on paper and want people to really take from reading it as well.

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Dr. Marcus Collins  13:50  

Yeah, yeah. So first, I appreciate that so much. You know, the book, it attempts to make an argument, a clear argument. I think that there is no external force more influence to human behavior than culture full stop, and those who understand that have a disproportionate advantage of getting people to adopt behavior and those who do not are more inclined to be influenced by those who do so. If you are in the business of getting people to move, whether you're a marketer, manager, leader, politician, activist, clergy or parent, right? Whatever the case may be, culture is the biggest cheat code at your disposal. The challenge, however, is that we don't know culture very well. We talk about all the time. It's in our vernacular, right? You know, I do this for my culture, as Jay Z says, right? Or, let's get our ideas out in the culture. Or, you know, HR folks even say we have a foosball table to catch and we have a great culture here. You know, so much talk about culture, yet we don't fully understand it, and since we don't have a really good Rosetta Stone to talk about it, it renders us almost incapable of engaging in it with any sort of predictability or sustainability. So I wrote a book to help us, like all of us. See the world differently through cultural lenses, which we already do, but to understand the role that culture plays in the way that we translate the world and how that informs how we navigate through it. And I suppose you know, in writing, the paperback version writing, I wrote a new chapter for it and told some additional stories. But like the chapter, the Epilog, is really kind of a statement of what I learned after writing this book. You know? What I learned is that the world isn't objective at all. It's totally subjective. Things aren't the way they are. They are the way that we are. I mentioned that in the book, but I found that to be just so much bigger when we leave the world of marketing just thinking about the world in which we occupy as social animals, and if we realize the world is not objective, it's subjective. I think it makes us a bit more civil in that we don't hold our beliefs to be gospel. We hold them as being one sort of modality, the spider verses, it is

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Erik  16:00  

interesting. Marcus, I want to ask you a little bit, kind of about what you were just talking about, but it makes me think about, like, sort of that difficulty and sort of quantifying everything you just kind of like talked about for some groups, you know, I wonder if some of that is because it's hard to understand the data and the insights. That kind of pulls that together. And I think about a talk you did in a South by Southwest a couple of years ago about sort of data and insights. Can you talk a little bit about that with the audience, about sort of like, why data may be good and why it may not be good. And, yeah, again, it goes back to human nature, right? Can you tell us a little bit about your philosophy on that? What you talked about,

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Dr. Marcus Collins  16:40  

we think about data, and we put in a very narrow frame that data for us is numeric and or zeros and ones, which is another form of numeric, digital, right, digits. And the thing is that any capsule of information is data, right? You know, you burn your hand on the stove as a kid. You know, not do anymore. That's data. Data. Experience something that is stored in your short term and long term memory, and you go, Whoa, I see fire. Don't touch it. That was a very visceral data point that you've experienced. And the thing is that we truncate data to only be representative of numerical values, then we miss all the substantive things that we experience. Call it gutting. Call it whatever case may be. And the truth is, paradoxically, that we have more data than ever before, more readings like reams and reams and reams of data. Yet our ability to extract insights from said data has only increased marginally, though our acquisition data has increased parabolically, exponentially, and that's because we mistake information for intimacy. We think that because we have information on people, we know who they are, and those two things are not analogous, right? Like, you know, I may have all the data points on you that I look at on LinkedIn before we get together, but it's the talking to you. It's the engaging with you. They get a sense of who you are, right and why? Can't numerically capture that the vibes are just as revealing as the zeros and ones are. So the notion is that we should be taking the quantitative data and the qualitative data to tell a richer story about who people are. The challenge is that the qualitative data requires a level of intimacy that marketers ain't got time for. We go, Look, man, my number. I hit my numbers at the end of quarter. So let's just blast with messages. It's like, the thing is, while that may be efficient, relationships are not efficient by their very nature. Relationships take time. They take investment. You know, if your boy goes on a date tonight, he comes back tomorrow, like yo, we had the best date ever. We're engaged. You go, fam, that is not going to work. You know, because you know that relationships to that fidelity requires more time and investment, but we want people to get married right away to our brands. We want people to not only buy us, but to love us. No, it requires more than that. So as we think about culture and these qualitative things, we can't poopoo them because we can't imagine. I tell my students this all the time, especially MBA students, because we train MBA students to say, if you can't measure it, it doesn't count. And I go, do you love your wife? How do you measure that? Like, show me the metric. Show me the data point that says you love your mom, or you love your kids. Of course, you can't measure that quantitatively. But is it real? Yeah, it's real. So if we know those things intuitively, we have to look at the way we engage with humanity, with that level of humanity, and that's the problem, I think, with marketers that we take off our human head, we. Go into a business, we take off our human hat. When we become a business leader, and we put on our economic hat, our marketing hat, our CEO hat, we forget all about humanity. That's problematic. Yeah, sure

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Kerel  20:12  

is. What was your motivation for getting into teaching? I know you've been doing it for some time now. How'd you get started there? You

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Dr. Marcus Collins  20:18  

wanna know the truth? Yeah, the truth, I was so excited, like, my zeal for what I was learning behavioral sciences were so out of this world we have, so off the charts, that I was always putting it into my strategy decks, and we had big client meetings, and then everybody's kind of putting, you know, submitting their slides to go in the deck. And we, like, walk through the deck. Like, Marcus, your section is 80 slides. Dog,

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whatever they got, yo. Fam, you got in 10 minutes, you're gonna trim it down exactly.

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Speaker 1  20:55  

I'm like, yo slide count doesn't matter. It's really about the beats. Like, no. Fam, 10 minutes, 20 slides. It's all you got. You know, it's kind of that kind

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Kerel  21:04  

They gave you more slides than I would have gave it up than I would give them down to 10.

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Erik  21:10  

But this eighth slide is really important.

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Dr. Marcus Collins  21:12  

Yo. You got to capture this theme, man. You got to capture George Simmel talk about network theory. It puts everything else in context. So essentially, they're like, Yo, we don't want to hear that. Like, comment down, reduce the slide count. We don't need all that theory in there. Even though I thought it was important and I was so excited about it, I didn't want to squash the zeal. So I was talking to one of my professors at Michigan where I got my MBA and some all things I was doing, and he says, You should come back and, like, share it with the class. I was like, bet. So I come back and I deliver. And I remember feeling so intrinsically rewarded. I felt just as excited about watching these students eyes light up with like aha moments, just as excited about that as I was about putting ideas in the world. And I was like, Yo, this is a thing. I remember talking to my professor, who's now my colleague, but at the time, you know, he was the professor of the course, and he invited me in, you know, I say, Man, I really enjoyed that. Okay, well, how did I do? He said, Well, you're not good, but you're not bad either. And he's like, if you want to get good, you need to really invest in it. And I was like, say less. So it's kind of scratched this itch for me to explore the spaces that I was learning and didn't have an outlet in the agency to like, really, you know, go ham. It also sort of fulfilled this intrinsic reward that I got about putting ideas in the world as an advertiser. Now I'm putting people in the world as an educator. And honestly, it kind of felt like performance to me, like being in the classroom, like I'm not putting on show. But there is a way in which you have to deliver so that, like people aren't, you know, listen to want, want. And it helped me, like, I was like, oh, like, I would practice new ideas in the classroom, and I go up a 19 year old who knows anything about marketing, can get it. Then I'm sure I can tell a CMO, and they'll be able to get it. It was just this thing. And it was so it was so cyclic in its nature. Wanted to form the other so the more I invested myself in the academic side, the teaching side, the better I got on the practicing side, and just sort of kind of continue to inform each other, but really, just because I need an outlet, and the agency was like, not be busy,

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Kerel  23:37  

but I hear you on that As someone who just finished their first semester teaching. I have a newfound respect for professors, for any teacher, because, to your point, you have to practice at that. It's a craft, right? And there's an art and there's a science to it, and it's also addictive in a very positive way, because, to your point, when you see the students reaction, and you know that they're getting it, or you know, they're feeling what you just sort of put down, and they're enjoying the class, it's addictive. And you want to do more. You want to get better at it, and you want to help. You want to help the students in the class, and you want to give them the information that you've obtained throughout your career. So I totally, totally get

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Dr. Marcus Collins  24:22  

it. But you know, what's awesome is to underscore that, yeah, is that, as much as I've been in the trenches with clients, the much as like, you know, we spent so much time getting idea out in the world, I've never had a client say to me, yo, you changed my life. Never for the students, they're like, Yeah, we're literally changing the way the world manifests in their minds, yeah. And I get emails from like, soon as I taught 10 years ago, I was like, Yo, you know, I keep the notes from your class, right? You know, actually, hold on till those notes actually use them. Like, dude, you changed my life. And for me. See, you know, that's just really, really, really powerful. It's extremely powerful. I would say that they that is more impactful than, like, some of the case studies that I'm most proud of, that I put in the world as an advertiser, while, you know, those things had an effect or an impact at the time in the zeitgeist, the time horizon in which we impact people we help them see the world differently. Yeah, that

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Erik  25:25  

makes sense. Marcus, I think there's so many great things to learn, not only from this conversation, but from the book. And I want to make sure everybody has an opportunity to be able to get a copy of that book too, so we'll be able to sort of link to that as well. I wanted to ask you a little bit about your journey in making the book. What are some interesting things that you learned while writing the book that you think most folks wouldn't know as

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part of that process?

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Dr. Marcus Collins  25:53  

So I tell you, I don't like writing. Even though I write a lot, I find writing to be extremely painful. I don't like writing, but I love to have written, you know, I love to have like, like, what's it in product, but the going through it, it is painful, man, it's painful. And you know, what's interesting is that when I signed the deal with the publisher to write the book, I was finishing up my dissertation for my doctorate, and in my mind, I go, Oh, I'm gonna take the dissertation and translate into the book done so for the first man four months, I never even touched the book because I was finishing my dissertation. And once I defended the dissertation, said, give myself a month's chill, and then I'm gonna jump in. And then when I jumped in, I wrote, like, maybe 3500 words, and I was like, that's all I got. Like, I got nothing else to say on the matter. I owed the publisher 85,000 words, and I wrote 3500 words. Like, that's a big delta. And I go, I don't think I can write it. I should give them their money back. Like, I don't think I could do this, because what I had written for my dissertation was not what I actually intended to write. Once I sat down and thought about it, and I had to, like, really find what do I have to say? You know, sure I can, like, tell war stories about what I've done as a practitioner. And suppose that can be helpful to some people, but it's not terribly compelling. And I can just kind of just go through the literature, but that's already been done by other authors and people who actually did the that work, and I can talk about my distillation of it all, and I guess that's kind of compelling, but that didn't feel terribly novel. And I was like freaking out, be totally trilled, really, really nervous. And I thought, like, Marcus, what draws you to culture in the first place that well, we all engage with it and engage in it, and we're all products of it and producers of it. That was really interesting. I was like, All right, so like, what else is true? And I thought about the fact that the founding fathers of sociology, which is where the majority of my literature repertoire sits, those guys studied religion or observed religion to study culture. And I go, I'm a church boy. Like, maybe there's a religious angle here. And then I was like, well, now I'm a church boy, but, like, I grew up, I'm a hip hop guy. Like, my dissertation was about hip hop. So that's another angle that's uniquely mine, that unlike any other sort of music genre, the culture of hip hop has almost transcended the music in of itself. Like, that's super interesting. And then I've spent my career as a practitioner putting work in the world that has resonated in culture. I go, Oh, that's how to do this thing, religious lens, practitioner, with the hip hop sort of angle to it. And then I'm like, I'm gonna write the book like that. And when I did that, the book got really clear. And once I started, like, do the writing, girl, you appreciate this. I would literally just put my slides up that I present in class and just write what my talk track is legit, like my speak my slides are just pictures, like there'd be no like, raps is like perspective, like, those are my slides. But right, I just put the slides up and go what I say to you, and that's what I just wrote. I just wrote what I taught and I wrote the book like I was talking, because I wanted to feel that approachable, and I realized that academic literature, it's so cumbersome because it's so exact that it's not very easy to read, and therefore it creates this boundary, this partition between the people who want the information and the information that's available. So me sort of sit as a sort of a liaison, a translator, taking this information, taking this knowledge of scholars who are way smarter than me, and packaging it in a way that not only can we understand it the broader public, but more importantly, that we can actually. Use it,

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Kerel  30:00  

yeah, I

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mean, and that's probably why, like, I

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said, I've read it a couple of times, because, you know, from that perspective, I could feel, in many ways, like we're having a conversation and you're speaking to me, right? I don't feel barriers in the language, right? And so, yeah, yeah, definitely, it was

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Dr. Marcus Collins  30:16  

a challenge to do that. Like, that was, like, fresh off my dissertation, so I'm like, I'm in academia land. Like, I'm like, Let's do you know, five line sentences, because that's how we write in academia, but someone else, and it's terrible. It's a terrible experience to read. I didn't realize how vulnerable I would have to be to write it. Like, again, I didn't write a marketing book. It wasn't a trade book, right? It was the book about people. It required a level of humanity that I didn't realize that I would be as vulnerable as I was, until I was like, in it, and I go, wow, I guess I'm telling the story. I guess I'm doing it. I guess I'm sharing these things, even things that are sort of embarrassing, like, you know, failures that I've had. Because I want to make sure it was clear that this was not about me patting myself on the back saying, like, I am the marketer extraordinaire, but like, Mr. Vessel by which this information is being expressed, and even as a vessel, like, there's flaws, there's too

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Kerel  31:10  

gotcha. Gotcha. All right. Fun question. What's in your music rotation right now?

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Dr. Marcus Collins  31:16  

Oh, right now. It's Frank Ocean. I'm introducing my children and Frank was my eldest. So Frank is, like, one of my favorite living artists ever, but like, there are only so many songs where there isn't profanity. And my daughter is of the age, my nine year old. She watches stranger themes. So she hears a an S bomb there, and, you know, she hears a little bit of colorful language. I go, all right, we could do some Frankie out. So Frank Ocean, I'm introducing them to it, so I'm back in it. And what's always on rotation is D'Angelo voodoo. I don't think it's been out of my rotation since 2000

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Erik  31:50  

that's great. I want folks to be able to connect with you. Also, after this, a lot of our audience likes to stay in touch and reach out. What are some ways that they can follow you or connect with you

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Dr. Marcus Collins  32:00  

You can find me on all the socials at mark to the C so M, A, R, C, T, O, T, H, E, C, @marctothec on all the socials as the handle where I'm at the website, mark to the c.com love to hear from you.

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Erik  32:17  

Excellent. Thanks. Dr Marcus, it's been a lot of fun. I hope everyone had a good chance to sort of learn more about somebody who's really working hard at really making a difference in a lot of different areas that are really important for us. So Dr. Marcus Collins, thanks for joining us, and thanks everyone for listening to a another episode of Minority Report podcasts that you can find all kinds of episodes, wherever you find all of your audio and video. Thanks, everyone. Appreciate you.

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