Episode notes
In episode 176, Kerel talks with sisters Carrie Bloxson, Chief DEI Officer at Hachette Book Group USA & UK, and Kolt Bloxson Pitts, Founding Executive Director at Miles Ahead Charter School. They discuss their family’s upbringing as Carrie being the oldest of four and Kolt being the youngest, how their childhoods differed and the impacts of their experiences to do the work they do today.
In their conversation Kolt shares why her son and his success was the main motivating factor creating and launching a tuition free Public Charter School and the 21st Century curriculum that prepares students to be real world ready. Carrie talks about DEI today in the corporate world, how it differs in the US versus internationally, and how she is dedicated to moving forward and making a difference because, in her eyes, there is no other way. The two sisters also share what their conversations consist of personally and professionally, what gets them both excited day to day, how they deal with imposter syndrome, anxiety, self-doubt, the music in their rotation right now and more.
“I noticed that the local high school that my own son would matriculate from was only matriculating one of seven males of color for college and career readiness. If I sent my own son to this school, I would literally be setting him up for his own disenfranchisement, which is not acceptable. And if it's not acceptable for my son, it's acceptable for no one's son, no one's daughter, no one's child in general, and someone has to do something about it. And if there's going to be someone to do something about it, why not be me?” - Kolt Bloxson Pitts
“I think we also have to recognize that there has to be some allowance for trial and error and failure in this human social experiment that we're working on called diversifying and making our workplaces more inclusive. And if we can give each other the grace to understand that and think really strategically about what are the right ways to do this, then we've got something.” - Carrie Bloxson
Kerel 00:03
We want to welcome everyone to another episode of Minority Report Podcast with Erik and Kerel. This is Kerel Cooper flying solo today, Erik had a family thing that he needed to attend to, so we miss him. He'll be back for the next episode. But with that said, I actually have two guests with me today, and I'll introduce them both. First is Carrie Bloxson, who is the Chief DEI Officer at Hachette Book Group USA & UK and then Kolt Bloxson Pitts, Founding Executive Director at Miles Ahead Charter School. And yes, they are related. They are sisters. Welcome, ladies.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 00:46
Thank you!
Carrie Bloxson 00:47
Thanks!
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 00:48
Glad to be here!
Kerel 00:49
Yeah. Glad to have you both. And again, this is a little bit of a unique setup for us with two guests today, but I'm excited to talk to you both today about your very different career journeys and paths. But you know, also to get into a little bit of a family background and you know, how you guys grew up and how you're raised? First question I have for you both is, obviously your sisters. Do you have other siblings as well?
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 01:14
We do. There's a total of four Bloxson siblings, there's Carrie, Tina, James and the best name of all, Kolt.
Kerel 01:22
Okay (laughs)
Carrie Bloxson 01:23
Which is its own story, by the way, that's its own story.
Kerel 01:26
Alright, alright. Let's start here. And Carrie, I'll ask you this question first. Give us a little background on the family. Where were all of you born? Where were you raised? Give us a little family background.
Carrie Bloxson 01:38
Okay, so we were all raised in Massachusetts. So we're all from the northeast, I'm the oldest of the four. Kolty is the youngest. And I grew up on a farm in Massachusetts. So it was sort of this really sort of rural part of Central Northern Mass. And my parents were basically hippies at this point. We had corn, we had veggies, we had pigs, we had chickens. And then we sold all of whatever we produced at like the local farmers market. And there was not really too many people around. And I think we had the farm until I was about eight or nine. And then we kind of moved throughout Massachusetts. And then Kolty was born in Central Mass in sort of a little bit more of a developed area, but still pretty remote. I mean, we were miles away from any other house that was near us. So that was us.
Kerel 02:29
Gotcha. And tell me a little bit about sort of the experience of growing up on the farm in the early days, then moving I guess, you know, a little bit closer into the city and sort of how that perspective has shaped who you are today.
Carrie Bloxson 02:44
Well, I hated my upbringing. I did not like it at all. I don't have a lot of memories of the farm, I do remember going to the farmers market with my dad and you know, selling the vegetables in that part. But our town had very little diversity. And even at a young age, I was very aware of that. And my parents told me that when there were black people on television, I would ask them, if they were my cousins, it was like that remote. And I was also really aware of the fact that we were different, and the social sort of inequities that you know, people of color, how they sort of stacked up to other folks. And it really left a lasting impact on me, our town had a library and I was at the library all the time. I read every book in the children's library that I could, all of the periodicals, all the magazines. And I really feel like it was sort of like the beginning of, you know, this really formative experience I have now with, you know, working in books, and just like developing this idea of empathy and perspective and curiosity and world building and just understanding people and the human experience. So I do have fond memories of that. But I also have very distinct memories of feeling very different and very isolated and very much on a social hierarchy of my upbringing.
Kerel 04:01
And I'm assuming that that's where your passion for DEI comes in play today? Part of your upbringing and going back to your childhood?
Carrie Bloxson 04:10
Hugely. I mean, I didn't have the vocabulary for it, but just that idea and passion for social change. It impacted folks who felt depressed, you know, people who are overcoming things, resilience, fortitude, there was always a deep interest there. And I think that's really what kind of propelled me and just the work that I'm doing now for sure.
Kerel 04:29
Gotcha. And Kolt, tell me what was your relationship like with your big sister when you were growing up?
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 04:34
Well, obviously, I completely idolized her. I remember that library. And I also remember snuggling up with my big sister in her bed and reading books with her, which is why I probably love to read to this day, and why I still do that with my own son because of those experiences learning from Carrie. And I also remember in our upbringing where we lived like Carrie said it was away from everybody and so anything that Carrie did, anything that my older brother did, I did. I completely idolized them, from sports, to reading to anything. So when Carrie went off to college and she went to Syracuse, going to Syracuse was just like, oh my goodness, this is something that like, mature awesome people do. And you also have to remember that my experiences with people of color were my older siblings, right? Were my sisters, were my brother, were my parents. So I had these archetypes. Because there is a bit of an age gap between me, Carrie and then my other siblings, that I could kind of see them maturing that informed my maturity. I think one of the things that's also really interesting about my upbringing is I was a really dedicated ice hockey player. When I share that information with people, you know, I live in Georgia, they're just like "You did?! How?? What? Like, tell me more!" It's like, one of those like, interesting facts. And so, race and gender were always a very clear line from the time I was five until the time I graduated from college. And being aware of race, being aware of gender and class was just something of which I always was a part of and I had no choice. And so I had to confront it very, very early on. And I remember one time, I was pretty young, I was probably around 10. And I just was so fed up with the name calling and the belittling and stuff and I remember my mother, who would be another very good person to interview one day, just told me she'd say, you know, "People are doing that to keep you on the sidelines, to keep you in [inaudible] box. And so it's going to be up to you how you want to play the game." And I remember that conversation in that car after a game. And I take that today to teach my own son that it's about how you choose to engage and how you choose to play the game t hat once was hockey, but has become my life too. And career.
Kerel 06:57
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about your career. Tell us about Miles Ahead Charter School.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 07:04
So, Miles Ahead Charter School is a tuition free Public Charter School located just outside of Metro Atlanta in Cobb County that opened this past year, that myself, our founding community and our founding board of directors have been in the trenches since 2019. And we opened our doors with just under 200 scholars, around 30 staff members and we are bursting at the seams. Our mission is that we create whole, healthy, happy people ready for the 21st century. And we are slowly growing into what will be an extremely successfully K-8 school. We opened these doors K-4 and til next year we'll be K-5 as we create another tuition free option for families in my community and in the local community.
Kerel 07:49
When I asked you to tell me about it, I could just see your face light up the passion there. And I can also see your big sister's face light up the pride that she has for you in starting the school. Give us a little sense of like what was the pivotal moment or the motivating factor behind launching the school?
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 08:08
Absolutely. So I'm a mom and I'm also an educator. And one of the things that as you mature and you look at property values, you look at schools, I noticed that the local high school that my own son would matriculate from was only matriculating one of seven males of color for college and career readiness. If I sent my own son to this school, I would literally be setting him up for his own disenfranchisement, which is not acceptable. And if it's not acceptable for my son, it's acceptable for no one's son, no one's daughter, no one's child in general, and someone has to do something about it. And you know, if there's going to be someone to do something about it, why not be me? And so really seeing that I wasn't the only one that wanted something a little bit better, a little different, a different trajectory, another option. Local schools that are around me have great options for kids. But then what happens if you know not everything is for everybody? If there's a model that works for one, great, if there's a model that works for someone else, even better. And I think we wanted to just create other options, tuition free public options for kids. And so my voice became two voices, five voices, ten, 20, 50, and now, like I said we're over a 300 strong community that are saying, "This is what it means to feel empowered to say, 'Hey, I love this over here, but I'd like to create some more diversity of choice for families of color.'"
Kerel 09:32
I love that. I've spent my career, 24 years or so, in marketing and advertising and just this past semester, I started as an adjunct professor at the university level. And one of the motivating factors for me in doing that was again, wanting to bring maybe something slightly different to the classroom in terms of really focusing on real world experience and not so much textbook, right? So I'm just curious from your perspective, how have you sort of, maybe altered is the wrong word, but really took a step back and looked at the curriculum and maybe made some some choices about the curriculum that, again, gives people options and sets up the kids for a unique learning experience.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 10:17
Awesome question. You know, I can talk about this all day. So there's the student experience, right? We call them our scholars. There's the scholar experience. And then there's our crew experience, which is our staff. So when we thought about the scholar experience, we said, who are we teaching? We're teaching a generation called digital natives. What is it that digital natives need? They need project based design, and they need longer chunks of time to really focus on cross disciplinary structures. When your audience members, when anybody, my sister, you or anybody goes to work, they don't just do science, they don't just do reading, they don't just do math, it's not compartmentalized. Instead, you have to learn how to do critical thinking across disciplines. And so we created a master schedule where our scholars engage in no more than two content areas per day. That's reading and mathematics. And then they go towards individual study, which we call Power Hour. They then have once per week, which we call Expedition Day, which allows them to go through all of those courses that are outside that core. So they go to 21st century learning, they go to steam, they go to all those things, science and social studies for that one solid day. So then that way from the teacher experience, a teacher only has to prep for two subjects versus all those subjects we just listed, which means that teachers no longer to have to be Jacks of all trades and masters of none, really focus and hone your craft in two areas. And second, that gives homeroom teachers a complete day away from the classroom. So as Miles Ahead matures, maybe we want to think outside the box about what that day could look like. It doesn't have to be traditional, it can be innovative. Is this something where teachers can go do a PD day off site? Is it something where teachers could maybe do home visits? We don't know. But we want to see where it can go based off of the shifting of that master schedule. And we call that that 21st century innovative design for both students and teachers.
Kerel 12:09
Hmm, thank you very much. I appreciate that. Carrie, I want to bring it back to you as well, too, because you do education as well, DEI work is education, at least in my eyes. I feel like you probably will agree with this, recently, DEI has been under attack in many ways, right? From your perspective, what is the state of DEI today in a corporate world? And what gives you hope for the future of DEI work? Two part question for you.
Carrie Bloxson 12:39
Yeah, it's such a good question. Yeah, so for sure it's under attack. I've seen several of my colleagues lose their jobs, you know, over the last several months. You're seeing budgets being cut, you're seeing initiatives being scaled back, and then also with the Supreme Court of the United States ruling against Affirmative Action, that sets off just a lot of fear in corporate America about well, if we decide to enforce this policy, it makes us really vulnerable to these anti-affirmative action groups to start filing suits. So even though things may not necessarily be illegal, it certainly limits us in terms of things that we can do in terms of diversifying our recruitment, all of the above. And the other part of this is, is that everyone is sort of looking at DEI folks to say, well, what do we do now? What's the answer? And that also becomes tricky, because we're supposed to be the visionary, we're supposed to be solving problems, we're supposed to be calming people down, but we're also kind of figuring out along the way, what does this look like for all of us? I always go back to the business case for diversity, equity inclusion, if you just look at it from a factual place, there are these, I think they're like the big three management consulting companies, Deloitte, Andersen, and I forget the other one, but they've done research to show that companies that are more diverse, and companies that promote diversity inclusion are more profitable, they have lower rates of turnover, they overall are just higher performing companies. And when I'm saying research, these aren't companies that are doing research that have vested interests, they're actually part of the big three management who have like best practices in terms of methodology survey analysis. So if anyone's going to do this research, it's them. And collectively across the board, you see that any company that's prioritizing DEI is outperforming. So just from a factual place, it makes sense, if you take all of the politics aside, you have that. And then if you just look at the fundamental practice of DEI, what is it? Are you really against having a company that's promoting inclusion and respect and belonging? I mean, at the end of the day, no. So what I try to do when people are asking is I separate the politics, the sort of word salad, the fear, the whatever it is, and just look at it from like a purely simplistic place. Factually, it makes sense or statistically speaking. And then at the end of the day, what are we talking about? We're talking about respect and grace in the workplace and giving people equal opportunity, not bad things. There is no way to argue around that. Now, that's not to say that, especially since 2020, there's a lot of positions that have been created, there was a lot of excitement, there was a lot of energy, there was a lot of pressure, there was a lot of urgency and timeliness, to get this right to solve racism. And with that comes a lot of, you know, mistakes. I mean, this is a little bit trial and error. You've hired a lot of people who didn't necessarily come from traditional DEI backgrounds. And so I think what we also have to recognize is that there has to be some allowance for trial and error and failure in this, you know, human social experiment that we're working on called diversifying and making our workplaces more inclusive. And if we can give each other the grace to understand that and think really strategically about what are the right ways to do this, then we've got something. So, I'm here for it. I'm here to figure that out. And to really think strategically, how do we get this right? Because at the end of the day, there's no other option, there just isn't.
Kerel 16:08
Are the conversations about DEI, different internationally than they are in the US?
Carrie Bloxson 16:14
So, it's a little early for me to necessarily say that because my promotion was about a month ago, and I just didn't like-
Kerel 16:22
Congratulations by the way.
Carrie Bloxson 16:23
Thank you so much! I can say, you know, at first glance, not really, it looks like it's the same themes that you would see here in the US, which I guess I'm not surprised about. But it's gonna take some time to kind of dig in there and see, you know, what are the underlying factors, but at the end of the day, what I'm hearing and seeing is, how do we continue to promote respect and inclusion and making people feel that rather than just saying it. So, you'll have to invite me back for a future podcast and I'll report back on that, okay?
Kerel 16:53
Alright, I'm gonna hold you to that.
Carrie Bloxson 16:54
Okay. Fine.
Kerel 16:55
Alright. (laughs) What are the conversations like between the two of you? Are they more personal? Or are they work related? Little both?
Carrie Bloxson 17:05
Hmm what are they like Kolty?
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 17:09
Well, I think they definitely start personal, right? It always starts with the Kolty. I gotta have that anchoring. So it's always like, "Carrie Bloxson!" It's just like "my big sis!" Like, it always starts personal. She and I, like our family, we have a huge love of horror movies. So it's always like, what are you watching? Which shows are you watching? It's from, again, from a young age, we are fully aligned in that. So talk about that. And then we do, we do talk about career. Obviously, like I said, my sister's experiences definitely help inform me in a lot of the tough decisions that I have to make, not just as the head of a school, but as the Executive Director of a Nonprofit. Not using Carrie Bloxson to inform my practices as an Executive Director would literally be like, negating the very job that I have. And I recognize the talent and the experience that my sister has, and I get it for free, right? So there's definitely little sessions that my sister has led about from her work and previous jobs, really mobilizing communities and young people to do the work that I'm trying to do and get it off the ground. Alright, when it came to marketing, she was our first stop. So I'm always going to tap into that. And I'm always going to see and pick her brain. And I'm also going to see and pick her brain about parenting, when it comes to my own son, about finances, about the like. So, it runs the whole gamut because she's just well informed about everything.
Kerel 18:33
Well, I have two younger daughters. So I'm going to need both, I'm gonna need advice from both of you?
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 18:38
How old are they?
Kerel 18:39
I've got a 15 year old and a seven year old.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 18:42
Oh, I've got a 14 year old and I would just commiserate with you more than anything. I don't have any advice, really. I'm just hanging in for dear life, really.
Kerel 18:50
I hear ya. I hear you on that. What gets you both super excited? Carrie, I'll go with you. What do you think is dope? What gets you excited day to day?
Carrie Bloxson 18:58
I'll give you the work answer and this is real. When someone I've been coaching or advocating for lands that job or gets that promotion or negotiates that salary increase, when you see those people, particularly young people because I'm old, okay, I'm 48, I'm about to be 49, so I get to say this, but when you see young people or early career or mid career, people doing that work and get recognized and such, there's just no better feeling. And oftentimes, you know, I work in a quasi HR function and I have been for the last five years or so. So I oftentimes can't share with people I'm coaching or advising what goes on behind the scenes, you know, how I'm advocating for them or how somebody is, but when it happens, there's really nothing better. And something I say to young people here is I tell them often, you know, you are the future of publishing. I'm in my job, not really to help the leadership team, I'm here to help make sure that I'm investing my time in you so that you stay in this industry, become a leader, do it responsibly and remember to pay it forward. That's my investment right there.
Kerel 20:10
Awesome. Love that. Kolt, how about yourself? What do you think is dope? What gets you super excited?
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 20:16
On the personal side, you know, just like moments with my son, a really good like meme or joke, like a really funny news story I can just like cackle about. And then on the professional side, it's the small moments with children, right? So like, I don't know why but there's something about walking past the lost and found that just gives me joy. I'm like, how do we have one shoe and not the other? Like, what's the story? (laughs)
Kerel 20:41
(laughs)
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 20:42
Like, make that make sense? Or like I have like repeat offenders? So I'm just like, "Weren't you here yesterday?" They're like "Yep!" I'm like, "How do you keep?!-" It's like, all of these little moments are when our scholars or teachers walk back like, "Hey, Miss B, how you doing today?" I'm just like "I'm good." Like, those real life moments with children and my staff just they make it all so rewarding. Truly do.
Kerel 21:05
I know what you mean. My seven year old, they had their school play a couple of weeks ago and just going in and watching elementary school kids do a play for an hour and a half or whatever it is and just the amount of work they put into that and learning the lines to do it, it's just, that makes me happy. Seeing that.
Carrie Bloxson 21:26
Nothing better. Nothing better.
Kerel 21:28
Nothing better, yeah. What's something that each of you wish you were better at? Kolt, I'll go with you.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 21:36
I wish I was better at managing my imposter syndrome slash anxiety. I don't know how to manage it to where I can just be like, let it go. Because I recognize there's people out there that are just like, I ain't got no anxiety, just like out here, living without a care in the world. And I'm like, okay, but one of the things that someone recently just told me, which I thought was really challenging, because I think part of it is I like a challenge and so anxiety in question comes up when I don't feel like I can understand how to circumvent a challenge was just accomplishment is getting to the next level of complexity. And so I think I want to try to make that my mantra of, you've now reached this next stage of complexity, because you've done these other stages down here. When I look back to what I did a year ago, and something gave me anxiety, I'm like, let that go sis, like you, you did that. So as I approach that, that's how I'm trying to teach myself moving forward that I can get through it.
Kerel 22:44
I like that advice. I used to deal with the same thing. And someone once gave me the advice of you're in the room because you earned the right to be here. So go after it. You're here because you earned the right to be here. And I always play that back in my head as well.
Carrie Bloxson 23:00
Yeah, like that.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 23:01
Good advice.
Carrie Bloxson 23:01
Mhm.
Kerel 23:02
Yep.
Carrie Bloxson 23:03
So, I'm going to plus one what Kolty said that's true. Although, I guess my imposter syndrome, I think it's more now performance anxiety, but that's a whole other thing. I think the piece that I wish I could figure out and I suspect you probably hear this answer a lot is how to be a mom and how to crush in your job at the same time. I have yet to figure out that balance of not feeling like you have not been excellent at both at the same time. I cannot do it. So I am sitting here with you talking to you right now while my daughter is texting me asking if she can take a Citi Bike home and I'm like, "Why is she text-" like I can't. You know, that is the thing, is how do you find that balance? And how do you not feel guilty about spending too much time on any one thing? So if you can answer that question for me, please, I would love to know.
Kerel 23:51
I struggle with that as a dad as well, too. I don't have a great answer for that. I will tell you though, that I think post pandemic, I'm better at the balance now than I was pre pandemic because I'm home more often. And being home more often, especially at the beginning of the pandemic, I realized what I missed out on with my older kid, you know, when she was younger, because I just wasn't home as much as I am now. So I'm better at it, but I by no means have it figured out completely. Alright, fun question, what's in the music rotation for both of you these days?
Carrie Bloxson 24:33
Oh lord.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 24:35
Carrie's gotta go first.
Carrie Bloxson 24:36
Oh no!
Kerel 24:39
I would say during the pandemic, too, I have resuscitated my vinyl collection as well too. So I've gotten much more into music.
Carrie Bloxson 24:45
Ahh, I like this. Okay. Also, well here's another challenge is I'm a runner and so I always have to have something going that's going to keep me going and you exhaust that playlist very quickly. But I will tell you that, this is a random one, but I'm gonna mention it anyway because it's a double plug. I just saw this incredible movie, which I think won best international film at the Academy Awards this year called El Capitano. And it's about two cousins, who leave Senegal to basically migrate, find jobs in Europe, etc. and how tragic the situation becomes for them and how they quickly realize that they're in over their head. I'm not going to get into too many details, but it's an incredible movie. And the soundtrack I've been listening to, it's like a little bit melancholy, a little bit sort of esoteric, but really, really, really good. So I highly recommend that and I recommend the movie, but not to run but to just chill, chill, chill. It's a chill playlist. Yeah.
Kerel 25:47
Okay, Kolt?
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 25:48
I knew that was gonna be-
Carrie Bloxson 25:49
Okay you're up. I know, I set it up for you.
Kerel 25:51
(laughs)
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 25:52
I'm way less complex. I'm a huge SZA fan. I've been in love with SZA since the first time I heard her sing many years ago. I'm a SZA fan girl. So she's always going to be in some type of playlist. But as a mom, my son has also been giving me like all the lowdown on just Drake and Kendrick. So he's memorized every single thing, every single lyric, so that's always in the background. But then I would say within the last 48 hours, Get Lifted from John Legend has been in rotation. I said, let me bring that one back up into the rotation. So it's been burning. It's been spinning its wheels, and I'm happy about that.
Kerel 26:31
Okay, alright, alright. I'm gonna sound like an old head here, but appreciate Drake and Kendrick, but 90s Hip Hop, you know, Nas, Biggie, Jay Z, Tupac as well, but right now again, going back to vinyl, I just purchased Janet Jackson Rhythm Nation album.
Carrie Bloxson 26:51
Now we're talking.
Kerel 26:53
That's heavy in my rotation right now.
Carrie Bloxson 26:54
That's pretty good. Real good.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 26:57
Okay, I like that. Yeah!
Carrie Bloxson 26:58
I like that for your daughters too.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 27:01
Yes! Really really good.
Kerel 27:02
Yes, definitely, definitely. Well, Carrie, Kolt, it has been fantastic speaking with you today, getting to know you both. If any of our listeners want to reach out, continue the conversation, what's the best way to reach out to you both. Kole, I'll let you go first.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 27:19
Sure, you can find me at Instagram, one of two places, you can find me at @milesaheadcharter2023. Or you can find me directly at @ajourneyformiles.
Kerel 27:30
Awesome. Carrie?
Carrie Bloxson 27:32
So I'm on no social media, except for LinkedIn. So if you Google me or whatever, search me on LinkedIn under Carrie Bloxson, you'll find me there. And I really do try to get back to legitimate LinkedIn requests. So you can find me there. And I really do try to get back to folks. So there you go.
Kerel 27:51
For the audience, I want to underscore legitimate as well too. Make sure it's legitimate.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 27:56
(laughs) Yeah, exactly.
Kerel 27:59
Well, again, thank you both for joining me. Really appreciate the conversation. For those of you listening as well, thank you for tuning in to another episode of Minority Report Podcast. You can find this episode and all episodes where you listen to your audio and video, just search for Minority Report Podcast and look for the logo. Kolt, Carrie, thank you again.
Carrie Bloxson 28:22
Thanks Kerel.
Kolt Bloxson Pitts 28:22
Thanks Kerel!