Guy Griggs, Vice President of National Sales at The New York Times

Erik  0:00  

I want to welcome all of our listeners to another episode of Minority Report Podcast with Erik and Kerel. Each episode we talk with leaders in business, tech and media and, today, joining us is Guy Griggs. Guy is the Vice President of National Sales at The New York Times. Let's jump in and get to know Guy. Guy, welcome. How are you?

Guy Griggs  0:26  

I'm well, man, I'm well. I'm excited to be here.

Erik  0:29  

We're thrilled to have you. And I know we're gonna have a lot of fun talking with each other. Guy, I want to talk to you about what it's like being at The New York Times and heading up national sales, and you got a tremendous career. But first, I want to know a little bit about you. Where were you born and raised? Tell us a little bit about the early days of Guy.

Guy Griggs  0:47  

Sure, sure, sure. So, I was born and raised on Long Island, New York, in a small town called Uniondale. It's by Nassau Coliseum, Hofstra University. It's mid Island, about 30 to 40 minutes outside of the city. And I grew up there, born and bred and went to school down at James Madison University, which is in northwestern Virginia, in the Shenandoah Valley. And then I came back to the city, I came back to New York and I haven't left. And so, right now I'm currently splitting my time between Midtown East, as well as the Hudson Valley. I have a country home upstate, in the Hudson Valley in a small sleepy town called Athens. It's nice to be able to split time and I work up here like Friday through Monday. And then I try and be in the city Tuesday through Thursday. We've all returned to the office for three days. And so that's basically my schedule. And it's a privilege, man, it's really, really cool to be able to do that.

Erik  1:50  

Starting off on Long Island, how did you end up in JMU? And what was your experience like there because that part of Virginia and, you know, Central or mid Long Island are very different. So what were your experiences like there?

Guy Griggs  2:03  

It is very different. And you know what, my dad was put on by somebody that he worked with. He's an educator. He was the principal of an elementary school. And somebody in his education field said, "Listen, this is one of the best kept secrets of the South. This is a place that is affordable, they have an incredible education program. And you guys just need to check it out." And so me and my dad were doing the whole college tour thing. And we went there, and I absolutely loved it. I fell in love with it because it had all the things that you kind of dream of in a college campus experience. There were grassy knolls, and there were big quads, and there were beautiful buildings and it was around a lot of nature and I don't know, just the whole vibe of it, I really, really dug. And so, I still have friends actually, funnily enough, one of my girlfriends who is staying with me, is somebody that I've known for 24 years that I met at college. So I've been able to create really long lasting friendships and bonds that have transcended just those days in college and, of course, are still with me here in my adult life. And my experience down there, you know, obviously I was a minority. Within, you know, this is like, not too far from West Virginia. I remember there were times I was driving to school, and I was like, almost chased off the road, because I'm driving through West Virginia to get down to the Shenandoah Valley where James Madison was, and you know, people in trucks were aggressive if I was by myself. So there were definitely some, I had a lot of run ins, but you know, the majority of my experience was extremely positive, to be honest with you. And it was a pretty diverse, I wouldn't say it was very diverse, but there was enough representation where you can find different pockets of communities all over the campus. So it was good.

Erik  3:55  

You said your father was an educator - what's that life like, academically, and just like, what's that like in the early days?

Guy Griggs  4:04  

My mom is an educator too, so I got it from both sides. All my music and art in the town that I grew up in Uniondale, she was like the Director of Music and Art for our school district. So they were both really, really hardcore, for lack of a better word, about my grades and my academics and my curriculum. And my job was to do well in school. My job was to put my nose down and work in getting good grades. And I actually got a lot of leniency and a lot of runway to do some of all the other things that kids want to do, as long as I was pulling in those grades, and that was the key to everything to be quite honest with you. And as long as that was up to snuff, me and my parents were good. There wasn't too much strife, but you know, once I started slipping in that area, then we had issues, we had problems. So, that was of utmost importance in my home education. And I was an only child as well, so all the focus was on me and doing well in school. And honestly them giving me the tools that I think have really led to my career path and my growth because it was all about that focus and hard work.

Erik  5:20  

Guy, you've worked for some tremendous companies, Bloomberg, CNN, Washington Post, currently at a great company, New York Times. How did you get started down your career path? What led you into some of your first jobs in media?

Guy Griggs  5:34  

Yeah, sure. So alright, so I started off my career right out of school at Bloomberg. And I did a myriad of different positions there. I was not, unfortunately, and Bloomberg TV or Bloomberg Markets, which was the magazine at the time, or bloomberg.com, I wasn't working for the media side of the house, I was working for the financial software side of the house. So that's actually where the preponderance of revenue comes in for Bloomberg, and it's all about, that's what drives the bottom line. And at that time, this is the early 2000s, Bloomberg Media was kind of like this ancillary branding proposition for Bloomberg, but it wasn't really a contributor to the bottom line. So anyways, after years of working there, I worked in at an analytics desk in a capacity that was kind of like a customer service group. And then I graduated to sales, where I was actually selling the financial software. I was banging on the door, telling my bosses I really, really wanted to get into the advertising side of the house, the media side of the house, and they just weren't listening to me. They saw that I was a good seller, they wanted me like where I could actually drive the bottom line. So eventually, I said, "You know what, I'm going to take a leap." And this is after, like, about four years of being there. And this was my first job out of school. I was like, I'm just gonna get, I'm gonna get into advertising and media and I'm going to do a lateral move. And I'm going to try my hand at a startup because I had come from this big global conglomerate. And I'm going to try out this Irish based, interactive, wearable media company, and I remember my parents, like, their jaws dropped. They're like, "What is the name of this company? Why are you leaving Bloomberg? You know, what is going on?" I was like, "Hey, listen, this is something new and interesting. And this will allow me to make a bit of a lateral move instead of starting from the beginning," because I was, at this point, like four years out of school, and I didn't want to start as like a sales assistant, or planner, an assistant media planner or something like that, at the bottom. So I did a bit of a lateral move over to this company called Adwalker. I was there for three years. I really think that that taught me a lot of tenacity and grit because this was by far the last thing on the media plan, it was the first thing to get cut. It wasn't a core thing that companies included as a part of their media mix or strategy. It was kind of like this trial and error proposition that some people took on, and some people didn't. Anyways, long story short, I got my feet wet within the advertising landscape within Adwalker, until about 2008 when the market crashed and Adwalker soon thereafter went out of business because it just wasn't, you know, a sustainable business model. But luckily, because I'm ever the networker, I met friends who introduced me to the people at CNN International, and was there for about four years or so selling CNN as it exists outside of the United States on TV, on desktop and on mobile, and really got to know a lot of people. It was an amazing, incredible experience. I love that company. I loved working for Turner at the time. Time Warner, you know, I know it's owned by Discovery and everything else now, but I really enjoyed my time there. After that, I got introduced just through networking, and through my volunteering in certain industry associations, to the hiring manager at the Washington Post where I proceeded to work for about five years or so. I got promoted to be a People Manager for the first time there and ended up running the New York Sales Team for a few years before I departed for The Times. At The Times, because it's all about who you know in this industry, I think you have to put yourself out there, you have to network, you have to get involved. The more you put in, the more you get out of this industry. And I actually was introduced to our current CEO Meredith Kopit Levien at The New York Times. She was then running the advertising department and I think her title was Chief Revenue Officer at the time, but anywho, I chatted with her for a full year. She introduced me to all of her deputies. There was no immediate role available, but I developed a really strong relationship with her and her team. And then when this new exciting role came open when they had acquired an experiential marketing agency as well as an influencer marketing agency, they asked me to come over and run revenue for these two disparate acquisitions, which is what I did. And I thought it was cool and sexy and something different than what I was doing. It wasn't traditional advertising. And I did that for about six months or so, until I got transferred over to the core of the advertising business, which is where I've been now for the last four years plus.

Kerel  10:33  

You know, Guy, you mentioned something there a couple of times when you were describing your career journey that I think is super important for people that are listening, especially those that are just starting out in their career, which is just how important it is to build up your network and to be networking. It's so key to your future growth, professionally.

Guy Griggs  10:55  

100%. I mean, I think that I would not have gotten the job at CNN, I definitely would not have gotten the job at the Washington Post and I definitely would not have gotten the job at The New York Times. Like this wasn't a submit your application there, it was because I knew people who knew people, or I knew the right people at each organization who were the hiring people. It's also good to have sponsors and mentors, because they can connect you with the right people. It's not only good to have, it's critical when you're navigating the media and the advertising business.

Kerel  11:28  

Yeah, yeah, I want to get your thoughts on the major differences between being an individual seller versus sales management, right? Because I think that a lot of folks in their career, they always think that they have to go into management to move up and I don't know if that's necessarily true. And not everyone's a good manager, right, so it's like, I'd love to get your thoughts on, like the difference in sort of mindset of being a seller versus being in sales management, and like maybe some of the differences between the day to day, right, as well, too.

Guy Griggs  12:03  

Sure, sure, sure. So, in order to be an effective seller, individual contributor, I think you have to bring new and smart ideas and learnings to your clients, you have to teach them something new, you have to have shock and awe moments, you have to have, you know, something that you're bringing to the table to offer them value as a first stop. That person then needs to be able to tailor that shock and awe learning or teaching moment into something that actually is meaningful for the client's business. And then you follow up with a solution, a differentiated solution with either a unique benefit or a key feature that only your publication or your media company can actually offer. But while doing so, like you know, actually by delivering that you're like taking control of the conversation, you're not afraid to talk about value, you're not afraid to talk about price, you're not afraid to have a healthy tension with your relationships. And those are the good sellers, the people that are able to master that craft are great. And I've seen sellers who are very, very senior in their career who have been doing this and have been in the hustle for 40 and 50 years and they don't want to be managers, they don't want to be people leaders and they've done incredibly well owning their own business and being kind of the author of their own destination, if you will. And so, I think that that's key components of a kick ass seller, excuse my French. And then I think, as a leader, you have to be able to be a seller, because you know, you got to be able to help sell, and of course, when people leave or when maternity leaves or paternity leaves happen, you got to be able to do the job, right, and understand the job. You have to be able to coach. So that is like helping the sellers, how do they manage certain situations? How do they navigate internal friction or internal obstacles to get things done? How do they present in the most effective way that's gonna be able to make an impact? So coaching is huge. I think, you know, resource allocation and being able to say, "Okay, you're going to need these support people to help you get this done," or, you know, just being able to manage kind of the operations of your sales team and making sure they have everything that they need is a part of the job. And then lastly, sales innovation is something that I think managers need and that's basically how to get big deals that are stuck, unstuck. How to think really creatively and really bring an innovative approach to deal so that you can help land the plane, if you will. You can help figure out what is it that we have in our toolbox to make this deal sweeter? What are the frictions that are not allowing us to close this? What are the things that we can do, who are the people, the key stakeholders that we need to be in front of, in order to get this stuck deal unstuck and actually drive the bottom line? So a sales leader needs to have all of those attributes, as opposed to the sales, actual person. But also very importantly, which I'm failing to mention is, sales leaders need to be all about the team. It's not about the "I", whereas the individual contributor is about their business and about how they're going to take ownership of that. The sales leader or the manager needs to be all about the team and all about the "we" and all about what you're doing to elevate the entire team and the organization to hit the departmental goals. So they're thinking much broader, and they care about things that are much bigger than just the individual contributor.

Erik  15:58  

Guy, you mentioned mentors, and you mentioned kind of sponsors, that can really be helpful along the way. Now, you know, being experienced and you know, having navigated different organizations, different teams, growing in your career, how do you feel that you're working, you know, with other folks as they're coming up? Do you find that you're able to mirror some of your mentors or sponsors or people that you found influential and helpful in your career? Or have you kind of created your own way to do that?

Guy Griggs  16:34  

Yeah, I think that I've basically emulated my mentors and sponsors, which was, let's dive deep into a certain problem or situation, let's get specific about a practical example that just happened that you had a challenge with or an obstacle with. And I asked my mentees to write it down and then let's talk about it, you know, when we actually get together. And we're able to dissect and I like to coach through questioning. So it's like, how did you feel in that moment? What did you want to say? What are some other approaches that could have worked, et cetera? And hopefully, I lead them to a place that they're able to discover their own answer, but a lot of times, I just tell them exactly what I would do, you know, in a certain situation, and they're like, "Oh, okay, that makes sense." And they take that and they run with it. So I think that getting really specific about situations or circumstances, and then trying to get them to come up with maybe a solution, but also telling them "Okay, that all makes sense, but this is how I would approach it," I don't know, has seemed to work in, I guess, the recent past. I've been mentoring for years. I used to volunteer for She Runs It, which used to be Advertising Women New York, it was all about the empowerment and support of women within the advertising and media industry. And I did that for about nine years and I was a mentor for a very long time. And, you know, that was the approach. They would come to me with, like, real life situations. And I'd say, "Well what'd you think?" You know, and try and coach them through it through asking them tons and tons of questions, so they come out with their own solution, but then eventually impart whatever knowledge I have, or whatever point of view I have, in saying, "This is how I would have done it." And then in terms of like, inside the workplace, I think that leading by example, I know, it's not real mentorship and sponsorship, but I do think that you showing up with a positive attitude, operating at 110% every day, you know, you're showing up, you're glowing up, you're actually doing the thing that you need to do to drive the better business outcome, really, like, creates this halo effect around you and people look up to and they say okay, well, he's the leader, and this is how he's behaving and acting, this is the way in which I need to come to work and behave and act as well. So there's an element of that too, just leading by example, and always, like, putting my best foot and my best face forward.

Kerel  19:09  

And, you know, I want to add to that, because like, I actually do think that that is a form of mentorship, because I feel that you don't have to have a, you know, regularly scheduled meeting with someone for them to be your mentor, right? Like, I feel like people are looking, like for you and your position, right, and just like you said, showing up to work everyday, doing the right thing, bringing the energy, right, people are watching that all the time. Right? And to me, that's also a form of mentorship, when you've got someone that's, like, watching your moves because they want to be in the position that you're in. Someone told me very early on in my career, they said "Kerel, look at whatever position you want to be in and see who's in that position and how did they get to that position?" And not to say that you should copy exactly what they've done, but you can take bits and pieces from others to add to your own game. So I actually think that's a great way of setting an example and a form of mentorship as well too, because people are always watching.

Guy Griggs  20:13  

Yeah, people are always watching. It's funny, I really look up to our CEO, Meredith Kopit Levien, and I just see the confidence that she has in every situation, never unfazed, always shoulders back, hands in her pocket, she walks into a room, it's like power, you know what I mean? You just feel, she's the one of those people that just changes the energy in the room because she's so confident in what she is, and she's like a natural leader. And so when I'm walking into huge forums, I try and exude that same level of power and confidence. That's just an example of somebody that I emulate. And someone who's mentoring when she doesn't even know she's mentoring that I learn a lot from. For another example, is, you know, like when she, actually this was another one of my bosses, Maggie Kiselick, whenever we had like a New York Times sponsored event, she's no longer with The Times, but she would say, "Guy, let's go around and act like this is our wedding, like we own this place." So if it was our suite at the US Open, or our box at Madison Square Garden, or any type of editorial dinner that we were hosting, or any type of meeting, wherever, I went in, and I would see her do it, and she would go around to every single person, look them dead in the eyes, smile, and welcome them to our house, basically, to our home. And so that was something that I constantly do and it just shows that it's something that denotes leadership, and people who are in control of a situation in a meeting.

Erik  20:25  

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. That's great. And it's funny, as we're talking about this, and just after Kerel's comments, it made me think about how I thanked folks who I found, like, and they didn't even know they were influencing me, right, they didn't even know they were inspiring me. I'm following them through social media, trade pubs, meeting events. And I found myself going to these folks and saying, "Thank you," and it caught them off guard. And they were like, "Wow, I never even realized that." And it's amazing today, the ability to be able to do that now, more than ever, for folks coming up in their career, or just looking for new inspiration because sometimes in our career, early on, we're looking for that, somewhere in the middle of our career, we're looking for that and then sometimes a little bit further on, we're looking for that, right? Great wisdom there. I want to ask you a little bit about, you mentioned real life situations and this kind of confidence walking into a room and having folks share that, impart that, right, and how to do that, but there had to be times in Guy's life, where it wasn't that way. Where maybe walking into the room, you felt different or maybe walking into the room, you knew you were different. Or maybe you walked into the room and just said, "Hey, I can figure this out, but man, nobody looks like me here. Or nobody thinks the way I think." All those feelings are why Kerel and I started this podcast, right? Because we were in rooms and we would look at each other and just say, " Oh okay, I see you," right? Can you talk to us about moments like that for you? And how you overcame them?

Guy Griggs  23:34  

Sure, I would be a liar if I didn't say sometimes I still feel that way you know? You have that impostor syndrome at times and you're like, "Ah, I'm not sure." It's a little different, imposter syndrome is more of like, "I'm not sure if I'm deserving of like, where I should be right now," whereas what you're saying is more of like you're feeling that you're being judged in that moment, like as you're walking into a room or you're trying to conduct something or whatever else. And so I definitely feel the imposter syndrome like, "Oh, my God, am I really? Am I deserving to be here? Like, am I good enough?" But I think that that's a part of just making you better and like, that's the reason why I show up so hard, you know, because nothing's ever perfect. You know, and I have to always overachieve. I think that that's a key element of just, you know, being a good leader. But in terms of situations where I felt judged, or like the only person in the room or different, I mean, countless times in my career that is true. And it's been particularly difficult and challenging when it's been like people on my own team, my bosses or people in my organization. You know the publications I've worked for and the media companies that I've worked for, and a lot of them were old school, good ole boy', network, bro-y type of cultures and I am a gay, African American male, you know, and I'm not the typical media bro. There were a lot of times, especially, you know, as I was in my 20s, and my 30s, where I just felt really, really, really out of place. And, you know, I felt like it actually was something that precluded my ascension within some of these companies, because I didn't dress the same way, or act the same way, or talk about sports, or whatever it was, you know, at that time. And so, to be honest with you, what I did was I left the company, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like, you follow people, and when you're with people who are supportive, and accepting and inclusive, that's where you're going to do your best work, that's where your mind is going to expand. And I would encourage people, if they're not feeling comfortable in the workplace, then leave. There are a million other jobs, we work way too much and way too hard to be confined to a place where we're unhappy, or we're not feeling valued. And so that's honestly how, eventually I dealt with it, if I was in that environment within the workplace, I would leave. And I gotta give, and I'm not just saying this because I am drinking the Kool Aid, but The New York Times has been the most inclusive place that I have ever worked for in my professional career. They literally, when I got there, maybe it was like month one, said, "Oh, we're gonna do this diversity, equity and inclusion report, we're not perfect. We have lots of issues and challenges, but we're going to at least publish to the world where we are with regards to diversity, equity and inclusion. Where we are with representation, what our goals are." And this was way before the racial reckoning of 2020. So that's why I've stayed for five and a half years. And that's why I'll continue to stay because, well, for as long as they'll have me because I do feel that support. And I do feel that love. So I would simply say, you know, when you're in a company that you're not feeling supported, and included, and a sense of belonging, leave as quickly as you can. When you're in a specific situation, let's say you go to a client or you're in a room and you're getting that judgment, you can't just leave because this is what you do, and this is your job, etc., then I would, in a very polite way, try and get down to the bottom of it and put it back on them like "Hey, you know, I'm sensing that you're not receiving what I'm saying right now. Is there any way that I can reframe this or reorganize this or tell me what you're having a problem with in this moment, so that we can move past it." You know, but I would put it right back in there so that you're not feeling that judging energy. I would make sure that you kind of reframe the conversation, you put it back on them, and you put them on their back heels a little bit and say, "Hey, is there something, you know, that I need to be doing differently in this moment to really break through because I'm sensing a little break in communication right now."

Kerel  28:09  

You know, Guy, thanks for sharing that. Really appreciate you being transparent and sharing your thoughts on this particular topic. And I also think one of the things that you said that's super important for other companies that are out there listening that may not know where to start when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, I think you said something that was really important about The New York Times, where you're at right now, just taking a step forward, putting a report out there, holding your own self accountable. And even though you may not be perfect today - who is, what company is, what person is? - but putting yourself out there about where you are, and trying to take steps forward, I think is so important for employees within an organization to see. Because sometimes, that's what employees want to see, right, like, we know you're not perfect, but like, let's do something about it. And let's take steps in the right direction to do something about it.

Guy Griggs  29:07  

100%. Yeah, yeah, totally. And we put out this whole DEI report, I think it was right after the racial reckoning in 2020 and 2021. And there's just countless work streams that are going towards making sure that we're a more inclusive and diverse organization. And I know corporate comms and everybody else has much more to speak on than I do as it relates to the entire company, but specifically within advertising, and within my sales team, I try and do whatever it takes to make sure people feel like a sense of belonging and inclusiveness within that. And there's still a lot of work that needs to be done, especially with representation. And that's something, it's interesting that you're bringing this up because I recently had a meeting with our lead recruiters to see what we can do right now to ensure that we have more diversity of background, diversity of thought, diversity of race, diversity of gender, diversity of everything within our ad sales team, because right now we're majorly lacking it. And we all know that when you're dealing with a creative discipline, like advertising, and sales, better outcomes happen when you have a whole amalgamation of different experience and background. And so we're almost doing ourselves a disservice by not focusing on that. And it's not that we're not focusing on it, but by not solving for that it would be a disservice.

Kerel  30:39  

Yeah. Gotcha, gotcha. Awesome. Awesome. All right, fun question that I love asking every guest that we have on the podcast, which is to tell us the top three apps that you use on your phone on a regular basis, but it can't be email or calendar or text messaging, because everyone uses those.

Guy Griggs  31:00  

Totally. Instagram is number one, probably. I am on Insta. I like to create stories. And I like to kind of form my own narrative. And I have a whole legion of people in the industry that follow me, which is really cool. And you know, actually, during the pandemic, I did 365 days of fitness in quarantine. Every day I woke up and I did an exercise and I paired it with the hottest track that I was listening to at the time. I'm really into music as well.

Kerel  31:35  

Alright, what's your Instagram handle? We're gonna tell everyone.

Guy Griggs  31:40  

It's @GuyGriggs. I am no longer doing the 365 days -

Erik  31:45  

Or now you're not pairing it with a hot track, you're pairing it with a glass of wine? (laughs)

Guy Griggs  31:48  

(laughs) Exactly. So Instagram is a big thing, I'm always creating stories. And I would love for people to follow me because it's usually inspiring, uplifting stuff. So that's that, as I said, I love my music. So I would probably say just the Apple Music app is something that I'm always dipping into. I mean, this is probably pretty basic at this point but Beyonce's new album, Renaissance, is everything. It's like a cultural phenomena. I love how she's like harkening back to Studio 54, and Donna Summers and [inaudible] and that whole vibe, and I think she's bringing, like all that stuff to a whole new generation. And I just think that it's like a really beautiful body of work. So that's kind of like, that's what I always have on is music, it's like the soundtrack of my life, when I'm not working, of course. And then the other app, I would say is, I mean, this is not that sexy, but Venmo. I love going out with my friends. I just went out to a big dinner over the weekend, and go party hopping or go to people's houses or whatever. And then we're all using Venmo to split the cost of like the $25 an hour driver that drives us all around for the night. So I know Venmo is always something and also I'm getting a lot of housework done so to my gardeners and to everybody else, like I just feel like Venmo is something that I'm constantly using, which isn't the sexiest answer, but, you know, whatever.

Erik  33:16  

I love it. That strong Venmo game. I love it. Do you put the emojis in too? (laughs)

Guy Griggs  33:22  

I do! (laughs)

Erik  33:22  

Ah, I love it! I thought I was the only one. I gotta ask you, and for those listening and can't see, there's a lot of books behind you. Can you name one or two that you've gotten through recently that you've enjoyed?

Guy Griggs  33:37  

Yeah, is this um, I don't know if this is PG, but The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck...

Kerel  33:44  

Ah, one of my favorite books. And yes, you can curse on this podcast.

Guy Griggs  33:49  

You can curse on this podcast. Ok good.

Erik  33:52  

And it's in the title. (laughs)

Guy Griggs  33:55  

Exactly, right? (laughs) To be honest with you, so I'm going to tell you a little secret. There's a guy named Elie Tahari, who was a big fashion designer back in like the 90s and 2000's or whatever. And he sold his entire book collection on auction for pennies on the dollar like with all these books, but he's a tastemaker. So he had like the sheek-est books about design and fashion and real estate and just cool things because he was a tastemaker himself. And so my husband and I bought his entire book collection because we had this entire bookshelf. And it's all really cool stuff.

Erik  34:36  

Incredible. It's curated already.

Guy Griggs  34:37  

It's curated already. Yeah it's like, I haven't read one of these books, but it's really cool stuff about the best pools in the Hamptons and the best you know, whatever. So, that's a little secret. Well, it's not a secret anymore. And that's why my bookcase is so full with lots of things. I cannot claim to have read a lot of them, just a few of them.

Erik  35:02  

Oh that's great. And there's probably a whole lot with pictures and I like those kinds of books.

Guy Griggs  35:07  

I like those books too. I can't really tell stories, like just to friends without pulling up my phone and showing a picture or like on Instagram. So the same thing with my reading, I really can't read books without big nice pictures in there.

Erik  35:23  

Just think about it, like, those are like old school OG, they're like the OG iPhones. You used to have to pull them out. And like if you go way back, right, that used to be like the old computer. That's where all the knowledge was, right? It's unbelievable. Well, it's impressive. I look forward to one day where Kerel and I are just gonna be pulling out books, looking at them, and reading them.

Guy Griggs  35:43  

Yeah you gotta come up to the Hudson Valley, man.

Erik  35:46  

We gotta use that Venmo too, Kerel, when we get up there. Listen, it's been a lot of fun, Guy. And thank you so much for sharing personal moments, business moments. Those are all really important. And we'd love to figure out a way to have the audience stay in touch with you. What are some of your handles? What are some ways that folks can get in touch with you?

Guy Griggs  36:04  

Yeah, sure. So, Guy Griggs, I'm on LinkedIn. And I think you can just follow me on LinkedIn. I think I'm like the only Guy Griggs out there. So that's really easy to find. And then Instagram @GuyGriggs, Facebook Guy Griggs, I don't really have any other handles, I don't think on social. But you can also just send me an email. It's really easy, guy.griggs@nytimes.com. I'm, like, glued to my email account so I never really skip a beat. And I have an assistant also that keeps me honest, if I need to get back to people. So that's also a really good way of contacting me

Erik  36:41  

Kerel, that must have been hard when you took email away. Well, Guy, thanks so much for hanging out with us and, everyone, thanks again for listening to another episode. You can find more episodes where you find all of your audio and video, just search Minority Report Podcast and look for the logo. Thanks, everyone.

Guy Griggs  37:00  

Thank you guys. Thanks so much for having me. This has been awesome. I really, really appreciate it.

Erik  37:04  

Great. Thanks for hanging with us.

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